Pick unlisted on bond notes
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In looking at items for sale on the Zimbabwean bond notes I've noticed that several of them (I'm assuming the ones graded shortly after they were released), say "Pick Unlisted.

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s-l500.jpg.5357cfff04ec268483c8ba2737920505.jpg

Others (I'm assuming those submitted later) say P-99a and P-100a.

1853792245_s-l500d.jpg.d763e55a46ebf4a6a3e1184329d2339b.jpg

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There is no reference in the pop reports to a P-99b or P-100b. I haven't been able to find anything anywhere else referencing "a" and "b" varieties for the bond notes. 

So all of this leaves me with 2 questions:

1) Are the "Pick Unlisted" notes counted in the pop report with other P-99 and P-100 notes or does the pop report understate the totals because of this?

2) Is there a P-99b, and P-100b, and, if so, what is the difference?

 

 

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Interesting, I've been wondering about this on other "Pick Unlisted" notes. An unlisted Pick # doesn't seam to prevent a slot from being added to sets though. My guess is the unlisted Pick # notes in the end will probably be a new Pick # (next available), not a variant or revision "b" in a series, PMG is just waiting for the Pick # to be assigned. I say this just based on 99 & 100 being bond notes and the "Unlisted" being standard currency, ZWD. Total guess.

Are they still using the Real Time Gross Settlement (RTGS) dollar?

Also have been wondering how much the bankruptcy of F+W Books and subsequent sale of the book publishing assets (including the Krause Standard Catalogs) to Penguin Random House has effected, (if at all) the assignment of Pick #'s. Just seam to be seeing a lot of unlisted Pick # notes out there. Probably just a coincidence, and a lot of counties changing/updating their notes in recent years. 

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2 hours ago, Fenntucky Mike said:

Are they still using the Real Time Gross Settlement (RTGS) dollar?

No. I actually made a journal post about this last night. The RTGS has been rolled into a new currency with a 1:1 ratio and the new currency (6th Z dollar) is just being called the "Zimbabwe Dollar," and uses the same ZWD currency code as the first dollar.

Currently 1 USD is about 362 ZWD, officially. The black market rates historically have tended to be higher.

Edited to add: They still haven't released new paper money since the bond notes in 2017 that I'm aware of and they continue to honor the bond notes at face for the new ZWD, which they were rolled into. Since the Bond Notes were originally to be pegged to the US dollar at 1:1 that's about a 99.7% loss of value for them in about 3-3.5 years.

Edited by Revenant
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3 hours ago, Fenntucky Mike said:

Interesting, I've been wondering about this on other "Pick Unlisted" notes. An unlisted Pick # doesn't seam to prevent a slot from being added to sets though. My guess is the unlisted Pick # notes in the end will probably be a new Pick # (next available), not a variant or revision "b" in a series, PMG is just waiting for the Pick # to be assigned. I say this just based on 99 & 100 being bond notes and the "Unlisted" being standard currency, ZWD. Total guess.

I agree that the "Pick Unlisted" doesn't seem to keep them from getting added to sets, which suggests that PMG has a mechanism for going back later and putting in that information or making them eligible under the assigned pick number - not sure if that's automatic or not and not sure if it helps the pop report or not.

The rest just has me scratching my head as PMG usually doesn't put an "a" on a note unless there is a "b" but I can't find any b's or information on b's.

I have a South African note now that just says P-139, but there's now a P-139a and P-139b. I'm assuming the "a" was added later and this P-139 was graded before there was a recognized "P-139b" variety.

It's kind of interesting to think about this stuff and the fact that, with modern notes, the TPGs are dealing with evolving situations as they happen in real time.

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Saw the journal, nice job on the set.

In the journal you had a pic of the 2019, 5 Dollar unlisted Pick which got me thinking about it again.

Is the unlisted Pick a new ZWD and not a Bond Note? Hard to tell but I don't see BOND NOTE displayed anywhere on the unlisted notes like on the 99 & 100. PMG did not put "Bond" on the unlisted 5 Dollar note but they did on the 2 Dollar unlisted. Also, thought I read somewhere that the IMF busted the Central Bank of Zimbabwe for printing the revived ZWD to payoff gold producers.

 

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8 minutes ago, Fenntucky Mike said:

Saw the journal, nice job on the set.

In the journal you had a pic of the 2019, 5 Dollar unlisted Pick which got me thinking about it again.

Is the unlisted Pick a new ZWD and not a Bond Note? Hard to tell but I don't see BOND NOTE displayed anywhere on the unlisted notes like on the 99 & 100. PMG did not put "Bond" on the unlisted 5 Dollar note but they did on the 2 Dollar unlisted. Also, thought I read somewhere that the IMF busted the Central Bank of Zimbabwe for printing the revived ZWD to payoff gold producers.

 

Actually I hadn't thought about it being a 2019 until you said that and that might explain the P-100a/b issue (or it may be a completely new pick number depending on how the back looks I guess but I think it'll still be P-100).

The original $5 bond notes were 2017 issues. If they released a 2019 series that could be enough to cause an a/b split in the pick number.

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Taking yet another look at it, you're right, the new, "unlisted" 2019 dated ones don't say bond note on the front. These must have been made after the RTGS dollar or the new ZWD was declared and they stopped being Bond notes.

At this point I'm not sure if these would be P-100b's or P-102's (for the $5 notes).

That makes me feel a bit silly. I was so caught up looking at the design I wasn't paying attention to the finer details.

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I'm thinking P-102's and the start of a new set for you.

The label on the 2019 2 Dollar "Unlisted" might be a "mechanical error" as I don't think it is a Bond Note.

Hard to say without seeing the reverse of either note, might say BOND NOTE on the back. The inconsistency of the word "Bond" on the two "Unlisted" labels is the only thing that gives me pause.

From what I'm reading they released a 2 & 5 ZWD last year with larger denominations to follow in the near future.

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28 minutes ago, Fenntucky Mike said:

I'm thinking P-102's and the start of a new set for you.

The label on the 2019 2 Dollar "Unlisted" might be a "mechanical error" as I don't think it is a Bond Note.

Hard to say without seeing the reverse of either note, might say BOND NOTE on the back. The inconsistency of the word "Bond" on the two "Unlisted" labels is the only thing that gives me pause.

From what I'm reading they released a 2 & 5 ZWD last year with larger denominations to follow in the near future.

Yeah... I'm going to have to look when I get them in the mail at this point and post about it. The seller doesn't post back pictures - I assume to protect the cert#.

There were plans to release $10 and $20 bond notes but they killed them in the face of public hate of the program. They probably had designs that they can similarly repurpose by removing "Bond" like they seem to with these.

This is really interesting... New set indeed maybe.

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Based on this from Wikipedia I'd say they're new Banknotes and not Bond Notes. Also, unless they repurpose the designs for $100 and $200 notes, I'm not going to get to see those $10 and $20 Bond Note designs like I'd hoped / thought maybe - although I could totally see them just adding a zero at this point. I guess they aren't doing $10 and $20 because with them $360:$1 with the USD they're already worth too little for that to work.

image.png.6e71055324c72844f40f23f7f2355d8d.png

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Looks like Zimbabwe has jumped ship on the 7 month old ZWD and after banning the use of the USD 9 month's ago, has made a U-Turn and pegged to the USD again. Per an article dated May 30, 2020 the Reserve Bank of Zimbabwe (RBZ) set a fixed exchange rate (in country) of 25:1. The new ZWD had fewer believers than the Easter Bunny, don't think we'll be seeing additional releases/denominations of the new ZWD anytime soon. I'd expect an emergency issue of some sort and/or reintroduction of RTGS. Looks like the RBZ is kicking around creating a regulatory sandbox for introduction of cryptocurrencies to the country, ☢. :ohnoez:

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1 hour ago, Fenntucky Mike said:

Per an article dated May 30, 2020 ...

Hmmmm.... Is it just me or has someone been doing some time traveling?

1 hour ago, Fenntucky Mike said:

Looks like Zimbabwe has jumped ship on the 7 month old ZWD and after banning the use of the USD 9 month's ago, has made a U-Turn and pegged to the USD again. Per an article dated May 30, 2020 the Reserve Bank of Zimbabwe (RBZ) set a fixed exchange rate (in country) of 25:1. The new ZWD had fewer believers than the Easter Bunny, don't think we'll be seeing additional releases/denominations of the new ZWD anytime soon. I'd expect an emergency issue of some sort and/or reintroduction of RTGS. Looks like the RBZ is kicking around creating a regulatory sandbox for introduction of cryptocurrencies to the country, ☢. :ohnoez:

I feel like this is the thing that makes trying to expand my Zimbabwe collection forward into the 2016-Date period both very interesting and sometimes very frustrating because the story / the situation just keeps changing because the people of the country have ZERO faith / trust in the RBZ and the RBZ just keeps justifying and reinforcing that lack of trust because every time something meets with a little resistance they drop it completely and make 90 or 180 degree changes in direction. It's insane!

At this point they've made major announcements that drastically changed the situation with their currency and their money in February 2019, June 2019, October 2019, and May 2020. I go away for a few months to earn paychecks and raise my boys and come back to find that they've flipped the -script! I can't even imagine what it must feel like / be like for the people living there.

Edited by Revenant
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28 minutes ago, Revenant said:
1 hour ago, Fenntucky Mike said:

Per an article dated May 30, 2020 ...

Hmmmm.... Is it just me or has someone been doing some time traveling?

Oops,

I feel like you would need to leap into the future to be able to stay informed on this stuff.

Yes, has to be very tough on the people with drought, COVID-19, government shenanigans and a monetary crisis.  It seams like the late middle ages, hopefully they have there Renaissance soon.

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  • Administrator
On 5/3/2020 at 9:10 PM, Revenant said:

In looking at items for sale on the Zimbabwean bond notes I've noticed that several of them (I'm assuming the ones graded shortly after they were released), say "Pick Unlisted.

118540842_s-l500c.jpg.17b51150c5b59f88e033e7db04c42f91.jpg

s-l500.jpg.5357cfff04ec268483c8ba2737920505.jpg

Others (I'm assuming those submitted later) say P-99a and P-100a.

1853792245_s-l500d.jpg.d763e55a46ebf4a6a3e1184329d2339b.jpg

s-l500b.jpg.755ccab657eae97324bf2ade405e8424.jpg

There is no reference in the pop reports to a P-99b or P-100b. I haven't been able to find anything anywhere else referencing "a" and "b" varieties for the bond notes. 

So all of this leaves me with 2 questions:

1) Are the "Pick Unlisted" notes counted in the pop report with other P-99 and P-100 notes or does the pop report understate the totals because of this?

2) Is there a P-99b, and P-100b, and, if so, what is the difference?

 

 

Hello, Revenant.

Unlisted Zimbabwe numbers are not added to the PMG Census, as they typically become listed by Pick later on. Thank you for your support of PMG, as always. :bigsmile:

Edited by Ali E.
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53 minutes ago, Ali E. said:

Unlisted Zimbabwe numbers are not added to the PMG Census, as they typically become listed by Pick later on. Thank you for your support of PMG, as always. :bigsmile:

hm So staying mum on the P-99a/b and P-100a/b issue? Do I need to bug the people in the "Ask PMG" forum? :D :baiting:

In any case, thanks!

I learned things I wasn't expecting from this thread in ways I wasn't expecting. lol 

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On 5/7/2020 at 4:52 PM, Revenant said:

hm So staying mum on the P-99a/b and P-100a/b issue? Do I need to bug the people in the "Ask PMG" forum? :D :baiting:

In any case, thanks!

I learned things I wasn't expecting from this thread in ways I wasn't expecting. lol 

Hi, Revenant.

You may want to utilize the latest Pick books for detailed information about the differences between World note varieties. (We use them daily.) Thanks and have a good weekend.

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