BAD BEHAVIOR on eBay
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15 posts in this topic

Just saw this note on eBay:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/FR-42-1869-2-LEGAL-TENDER-RAINBOW-SUPER-EXTRA-FINE-CONDITION/153720137450

It sold last week on Heritage Auctions for $1050 + 20% buyer's premium:

https://currency.ha.com/itm/large-size/legal-tender-notes/fr-42-2-1869-legal-tender-pmg-very-fine-25/a/141944-85451.s

WARNING: The eBay seller has apparently removed the PMG holder with comment "Seal Redrawn", VF 25. The seller has titled his eBay listing: SUPER EXTRA FINE CONDITION.

It really bothers me that not only has someone destroyed a beautiful PMG holder and erased the effort that a grader has put into their work, but they are also trying to hide details that help us collectors assess the true value of a note!

If anyone else would like to report this listing to eBay it may help reduce this kind of unethical behavior. Just click on the Report link in the listing. I used the category/topics: Listing practices > Search and browse manipulation > Incorrect Item Condition.

The attached image summarizes my findings.
 

PMG Post.png

Edited by jlars
Clarification.
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He lost big on this. He only sold it for 974.00. Subtract ebay fees and cost of shipping and he lost at least 200 dollars doing what he did. The reality is that the person that purchased it got an ok deal even if that person has to get it regraded.

Also, this isn't unethical. The PMG grader may have very well undergraded the note and this buyer may have decided to take the chance and sell it and let the new buyer make that call. It is ludicrous to say that PMG is the only authoritative source for determining a grade and that whatever they say is in stone. My suggestion to you is to just relax and let the marketplace do it's thing.

Just sayin.

Edited by Bwspears
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On 12/30/2019 at 1:25 PM, Bwspears said:

He lost big on this. He only sold it for 974.00. Subtract ebay fees and cost of shipping and he lost at least 200 dollars doing what he did. The reality is that the person that purchased it got an ok deal even if that person has to get it regraded.

Also, this isn't unethical. The PMG grader may have very well undergraded the note and this buyer may have decided to take the chance and sell it and let the new buyer make that call. It is ludicrous to say that PMG is the only authoritative source for determining a grade and that whatever they say is in stone. My suggestion to you is to just relax and let the marketplace do it's thing.

Just sayin.

"This isn't unethical"? Really? The comment "Seal Redrawn" has been removed. Don't you think a buyer would like to know that? Of course it's unethical. When faced with that kind of behavior, I'm not going to "relax". Sad that you will.

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19 minutes ago, Jhon E Cash said:

I have a gut feeling that this person knew exactly what he was doing.

.Me too. More to the story, when I saw the eBay listing I sent him a message: 

     "I recently saw this note in a PMG holder. Did you remove the note from the holder? If so, why?"

I did not receive a reply.

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Of course it's unethical. To take a note from a TPG and not provide the provenance to a potential buyer is shameful. If you let a marketplace do it's thing, and this is part of its thing, then using  previous knowledge of a company event to trade a stock would be legal. The purveyors of these notes often don't respond to questions and often change their handle on Ebay. I wonder why? Looks like some folks need an ethics refresher. 

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On 4/1/2020 at 6:38 PM, Sheik Sheck said:

The purveyors of these notes often don't respond to questions ...

The ones I love are the ones that talk up a note / series as an investment that will go higher when actual sale prices on that series are down 30-50% in the last 5 years.

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That's why I joined T&P. I can load all the notes of a certain grade, transfer it to Excel and plot the price of that note of a given grade since records began. It almost always says Ebay notes are overpriced, of course since many are purchased on Heritage and in order to garner a profit, the note is marked up 30% or more. I love a certain high end vendor of recent notes on Ebay. They bought several world class notes on the Stack's (Pogue note auction) and they are on Ebay for 30% or more above what they sold for a few weeks ago.These are not your run of the mill notes, but five and six figure notes. A profit on one of the notes would make for a sizable chunk of a yearly salary. Good luck to them and the buyers crazy enough to buy a six figure note off Ebay

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13 minutes ago, Sheik Sheck said:

That's why I joined T&P. I can load all the notes of a certain grade, transfer it to Excel and plot the price of that note of a given grade since records began. It almost always says Ebay notes are overpriced, of course since many are purchased on Heritage and in order to garner a profit, the note is marked up 30% or more. I love a certain high end vendor of recent notes on Ebay. They bought several world class notes on the Stack's (Pogue note auction) and they are on Ebay for 30% or more above what they sold for a few weeks ago.These are not your run of the mill notes, but five and six figure notes. A profit on one of the notes would make for a sizable chunk of a yearly salary. Good luck to them and the buyers crazy enough to buy a six figure note off Ebay

What is T&P?

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I'm confused!  Is the problem that the seller removed the bill from the sealed PMG holder and didn't disclose this on the Ebay auction?  Is it that the seller on Ebay removed it from the case and claimed the grade higher than PMG's grade?  If the later then the buyer may have felt the bill was under graded by PMG.  Ideally, if someone feels the bill is under graded by PMG, they should make a note of that.  My concern would be if the person counterfeited the note and still has the graded sealed note.  If they really felt that it was improperly graded, they should have removed it and sent it to the other grading house.

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