ddr70

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Everything posted by ddr70

  1. Nationals by theme such as State Capitals, one per state and sets by Fr. #
  2. ddr70

    Ch # 6301

    This is for Ch. 6301 which issued series 1902 Red Seals (RS), Date Backs (DB) and Plain Backs (PB) as well as Ty 1 and 2 Small Nationals. Using Heritage's archives, I've found all RS and DB have A.W. Mellon as President. W.S. Mitchell was Cashier for all RS and most DBs, but was succeeded by BW Lewis near the end of the DB issues (one example on a $10 DB where BW Lewis signed with AW Mellon, SN 248880 given a $10DB range of SN 1-249000). In 1921, A.W. Mellon resigned to take the post of U.S. Treasury Secretary. You'll find both A.W. and R.B. on notes with the regional sort letter, but only R.B. on notes without the geographical sort letter, as geographical sort letters were dropped in 1924. After Aug. 22, 1925, the treasury SN was replaced with a second instance of the bank SN and as expected only Lewis and R.B. Mellon appear as bank officers. I've found only one example, a $5 PB, where R.B. Mellon signed the note and a line is engraved on the plate for placement of bank officers' signatures and the plate was a D. All others have engraved signatures of Lewis and R.B. Mellon and no lines. Research to date has signatures engraved on $5 PBs starting with Plate A3 and continuing through O4 as the 'highest' plate I've observed. Early plain back $10s and $20s are found with the signature line and the highest plate 'numbers' observed were DD and J, respectively. Two PB $10s with TT front plate and a $20 with an N front plate were the highest found. A bit more research is needed to determine highest plate 'number' for the Mellon NB (someone with track and price could help out here). So that makes for interesting variants: a) with engraved signatures and b) older notes without engraved signatures. Aldrich-Vreeland Act was enacted in 1908 which allowed banks to back their notes with 'other securities'. The act expired in 1915, so the backing of notes using other securities than treasury bonds was no longer allowed. It would appear that in the case of Ch. 6301, Date Backs were issued up until the expiration of Aldrich-Vreeland and new plates and use of Plain Backs began. All plates used for PBs have 'backed by US bonds deposited with the treasury' as do all red seals; red seal issues must have ended by 1908 with date back picking up the 'other securities' backing language. Mellon's charter date, June 3, 1902, appears on all large size notes even though notes were printed in 1925 after the treasury SN was discontinued. I assume the Mellon NB renewed their charter at the 20 year mark, but even though dozens of plates were engraved, Lyons and Roberts and June 3, 1902 continued to be used. The Act of July 1, 1922 extended lifetimes of all national banks for 99 years, thereby ending the need for a new series; the Mellon NB must not have had an order for notes for those problematic 28 days in June. I'm happy to report I'm no longer confused by Ch. 6301! In case you are wondering, what are the SN ranges for 6301, here they are: $5 RS SN 1-116200; $5 DB SN 1-374995; $5 PB SN 374996-1000000; A1-A363739 3x$10-$20 RS SN 1-109670; $10 DB 1-249000; $10 PB SN 249001-696905 $50-$100 RS 1-3070; DB 1-7600
  3. ddr70

    Latest Acquisition

    I switched my collecting focus from coins to currency and then got hooked on Nationals. I switched because I couldn't find good values in coins whereas those depressed currency prices over their highs a little over a decade ago drew me in. I'm learning quite a bit--learned a lot when I bought Kelley's National bank note reference. My parents gave me five series 1929 $5 nationals, two of which have very low census numbers so they are now graded and posted in various competitive and signature sets. One is so common I wish they had spent it :-). I prefer large size notes over small, but I still look at small and sometimes win a note. Soooo... let me plug my newest signature set--the theme is Citizens in the title of national banks. It would seem they are generally rarer than their First National Bank rivals and I have over a dozen posted with pics now. See https://notes.www.collectors-society.com/registry/notes/ViewPersonalCollection.aspx?UserCollectionID=1289&Tab=list
  4. ddr70

    Latest Acquisition

    couldn't find a buffalo emoji here, just a bee. Bee--utiful note! Thanks for sharing!
  5. Hi PMG. I know you're accepting submissions in Baltimore. Any plans on having an expert provide opinions on notes at your table? I missed this last time I was at the expo. I plan on submitting a solid 8's on a national--bank SN is 8888 on a $10 PB from Bangor, PA Ch. 2659. PMG has noted a 4 digit bank serial number as a solid previously, so hopefully my note will have this noted on the holder. thanks!! ddr70
  6. Marietta, OH The Central NB Ch. # 5212 VF+ $10 1902 PB Fr. 632 SN 27286 pp D/992 May 29, 1919. A number of Second Charter notes survive bearing the bank's original German NB title. The title was changed due to World War I with the second title "The Central NB" found on Third Charter notes and those notes are somewhat tough to find with prices reflecting this fact. This pristine Very Fine example has wide margins and nice embossing. Philadelphia, PA The Quaker City NB Ch. # 4050 Fine $10 1902 PB Fr. 626 SN 124088 pp I/992 May 30, 1909. This $10 from the City of Brotherly Love is not too common a find. Notice that these two notes are both $10 plain backs and have the same back plate (bp) number of 992. That shouldn't garner much interest except the plates that made these two backs are different! Check out the insert of the two back plate numbers and it's fairly easy to see that the engraver(s) made these numbers differently. I thought once a bp number was used, it would not be reused on another plate. Am I wrong in that assumption? I've illustrated that the bp number has a different position and style. The different styles and positions are much more easily seen with a loop. Sorry, I don't have a scope to take better pictures. I also have heard that experts could distinguish different engravers by how they cut the designs (I think that was best done by examining plates). I look, but can see no differences in design elements. The other oddity I notice on the front of the Marietta note is that the t's are not crossed in the scrpit version of 'Marietta, OHIO'. This is on Marietta's D plate, but is true of $5s and other $10 plates, either with Lyons | Roberts signatures OR Teehee | Burke signatures (see Heritage's archives). Now I have to get into charter dates for Marietta 5212 because this gets interesting (to me anyway :-). Lyons | Roberts notes are dated Sept. 17, 1909 and the t in Sept. is also NOT crossed! So, from 2d charter date of May 29, 1899, the name change (Value Backs dated Feb. 21, 1918 [sporting a scarce Friedberg number] and then PBs dated Sept. 17, 1909) and the required start of their new charter at the 20 year mark (May 29, 1899), the t's were not crossed. I see the Citizen's NB of Marietta, Ch. # 4164 also doesn't have t's crossed. I'm saddened to report that Marietta, PA, Ch. # 25, also didn't get it's t's crossed. So, who's t's are crossed? The First NB of Marietta, Ch. 142, the earliest of 5 banks calling Marietta, OH home, whose 3rd charter started Feb. 25, 1903 and notes issued with Lyons | Roberts signatures, have the t's crossed. Note, the 'i' are dotted in all cases. My conclusion is that clearly some bp numbers were reused AND there were engravers who would dot the i's, but not necessarily cross the t's!
  7. PMG must have placed Radar on the back because your name is on the front, right? Have you found any series of 1882 $5s for 2491?
  8. ddr70

    Ch # 6301

    The $5 Plain Back is the 'youngest' note as it doesn't have a regional sort letter and it has two instances of the bank serial number. Use of the treasury serial number was discontinued after August 22, 1925 and geographical sort numbers were discontinued in 1924. The $20 with serial number 451123 is well into the range ordered by The Mellon NB (serial numbers for plain backs of 3X$10-$20 were 249001-696905). The $5 & $10 red seals were printed prior to the 1903 rotary serial number printing machine (the $20 red seal was not). Your notes span > 20 years, so not too surprising that the cashier and president changed out over that period of time. Date backs were replaced by plain backs as I recall mostly at the expiration of the Aldrich-Vreeland act in 1915. So we know Mitchell and A.W. Mellon were still in charge at that time. Mitchell gave us a much bolder swirl over the i in his signature on the Date Back. What's confusing to me is why that $5 Plain Back still has a June 3, 1902 date as I think it was printed after 1925 (the two bank serial numbers indicate this) which spans over 20 years (the length of a charter shouldn't exceed 20 years), so it should display the next charter date (for the Mellon NB ~June 4, 1922 and updated register of the Treasury and Treasurer signatures). The K4 plate indicates treasury (engraving) ran through the alphabet 4 times for the Mellon. So why not update the later plates with the new charter date and Treasury signatures? [recall my Salem, OH, Charter 43 post a number of months ago] I think the answer is that treasury just wasn't very consistent. There's a $5 PB SN 684881/N886932E with Lewis and R.B. Mellon signatures on ebay.
  9. ddr70

    Ch # 6301

    The $10 is A2 radar 84348, so A284348. Statistically, I find that too often in the pool of notes that survived, just to annoy me no doubt :-). Is that a K4 Plate on the PB $5? Good to see your posts again!
  10. I liked that note too. It has the misplaced town name going for it as well--Berlin. And it has a vice president's signature. Can't argue the Star either. I have a nice 1902 Date Back from Ch. 4620, SN 676/B464018A pp A/184 in a PMG 30EPQ holder. I liked the short radar bank SN. Their 3rd charter date was Aug. 19, 1911 (vs Aug. 26, 1891 above), so it has Napier | McClung signatures. It's actually fairly common as a 1902 DB. Heritage sold my note as well as part of the Chuck Westfahl Collection. I just made a Wisc.1902 type set <--click to follow link--as I also have a Green Bay $5 1902 DB in PMG 35EPQ (I don't like 1 note sets).
  11. Did you ever notice that if you could remove the 5 from the SN, you'd have 439439.
  12. ddr70

    Collage of CH 6301 Red Seals

    I thought that $20 would end up in your collection and it makes a very nice set, somehow all from the C plates. Did you notice the difference in the fonts on the $20 as compared to the $5 and $10? It has the new numbering font introduced in 1903, as expected given the Treasury Number starting with V. I added a Quarryville, PA $20 Red Seal in PMG 15 to my collection.
  13. ddr70

    Ch #6301

    I never compiled that list of charters that issued notes during the brief period napier | thompson. Personally, I place a premium on the signature combination (as does Friedburg), but I think the population of the bank really drives the prices. Since the Warren NB was a prolific issuer, you can find Ch. 4879 notes at what I consider a bargain. In Kelly's reference he talks about collectors prior to census data collecting by Fr. # and not by town names and bank names. PA was the state with the largest number of charters, so it has a low premium factor. The $10 Plain Back, Warren, PA Ch 4879, SN 52983/X778493 pp B/139 in PMG 25 in my signature set cost me $248 after certification fees. My note has the treasury SN, so it was printed before Aug. 22, 1925. Your note has the EPQ designation and better eye appear for sure. I got mine from eBay and I thought I paid a good price, not a great price, but I wanted the $10 to go with my $5s.
  14. ddr70

    Ch #6301

    I'm not a strong buyer of small size nationals. The Warren NB was a prolific issuer. However, I will go after large size on this charter. I think I may have bid on those notes when they came up at auction. I just have the one small Type 1 $5 that's in my Warren signature set. We should do some trades!
  15. ddr70

    Oswego County, NY Nationals

    I just realized that Albion is in Orleans County, in Western NY under Lake Ontario.
  16. PMG provides a fairly good grading guide here: https://www.pmgnotes.com/paper-money-grading/grading-scale/ It leaves a bit to the 'eye of the beholder', especially the VF 25 with an Exceptional Paper Quality. I'd like to have one of those--it would be a really fine very fine find!
  17. Also, there's now a line for replacement notes, 1802-1R which shows 0 in 66 (replacements are scarce and I haven't figured out how to spot them yet). The line for 1802-1 shows 100 in 66 and 12 in 67. You may know this... to receive a grade of 65 or above, the note must have EPQ. When I check the certification I see the info below. Must be a great looking note! Note #: 1802-1Serial #: B009239ACountry: USNote Description: The First NB South Bend Indiana CH#126, $20 1929 Ty. 1 Small SizeSeal Type: Small BrownSignatures/Vignettes: Jones, WoodsGrade: 66 EPQComments: Exceptional Paper Quality
  18. ddr70

    A PMG Grading Kanban

    Today my notes moved into Quality Control. I checked on the turn around time for economy and it is 28 working days. With Veterans Day and Thanksgiving Holidays, it's been about 28 working days. And one working day later, notes are in finalized ready to ship. I have the grades. I'm happy as they are pretty much what I expected or better. When I receive my notes, I'll scan and post and provide a link here... for anyone that is interested :-) By the way, did you grade my $20 PB from New Castle, PA (above)? SPOILER ALERT-- It's in a comment-free PMG 25 holder now. I had it as a F-VF as the back was better looking. I'm quite happy with a Very Fine 25 for this scarce, Western PA note. On the 24th, my notes arrived. I've updated two sets with a few of the notes including the New Castle $20. Several of the large notes can be found here: https://notes.www.collectors-society.com/registry/notes/MySets_Listing.aspx?PeopleSetID=20872&SelectedTab=SetListing and my Warren NB notes are mostly all here: https://notes.www.collectors-society.com/registry/notes/ViewPersonalCollection.aspx?UserCollectionID=1184&Tab=list My PA small size nationals mostly ended up here: https://notes.www.collectors-society.com/registry/notes/MySets_Listing.aspx?PeopleSetID=20873&amp;SelectedTab=SetListing
  19. ddr70

    A PMG Grading Kanban

    Luckily for me (a collector), I'm keeping these notes for a long time and I don't need the cash flow from them. So, the wait just builds up my anticipation. I get to compare my grading skills with team PMG's professional grading skills. So all fun for me. I do suggest improvements to PMG, like adding 'research' as a link to the PMG tab (so you could get to verify PMG number) here on collectors society, just like you find on the NGC and CGC tabs. People say the government is slow, but PMG implementing this simple suggestion--slower! The Kanban solution shouldn't be too hard especially if PMG already records the date/time a submission is received into a database, and again when processed into the 'scheduled for grading' stage and then date/time the submission enters QC. Maybe weekly, update the average times for various tiers. I haven't submitted notes to PCGS although I do have a set or two in their note registry. PCGS has sooooo many more categories for folks who collect nationals than PMG. I've started a few as signature sets here at PMG and created one--the rainbow set (see https://notes.www.collectors-society.com/registry/notes/ViewPersonalCollection.aspx?UserCollectionID=1191&amp;Tab=list) which unlike nicely toned coins means town or bank names with a color reference (i.e. Orange, CA, Brownsville, TX or The Blackstone NB of Uxbridge, MA (Charter 1022 is one of my favorite notes)). Also I started a First through Tenth NB signature set here: https://notes.www.collectors-society.com/registry/notes/ViewPersonalCollection.aspx?UserCollectionID=1229&amp;Tab=list I'm happy to hear that PMG compares favorably to PCGS's grading times. I meant to ask if anyone has a note dated Dec. 25 on a National? Post it please... it will go nicely with my New Year's Eve note. Kelly shows one from Christmas as I recall in the 6th ed. of Nat'l Bank Notes, it's from The Citizens NB of Ripley, OH.
  20. Just google Don Kelly national bank and you'll get his web site donckelly.com. He was running a special ($81) on the 6th ed. Nat'l Bank Notes plus a Friedberg plus free ship that ends the end of 2018. He shipped mine priority and I had it in just a few days. As I recall, I emailed him using the address on his web site and he called me. I got to chat with him for a bit on the phone about my Salem, OH notes. And I paid over the phone with a card. Not sure when the 7th edition is out or if Don is planning a 7th. The 6th comes with a CD with the Hickman project registry. I like the data on bank officers, although its not complete. Sorry I didn't respond earlier as I didn't see a new post here. So, you know I like that note a lot--you going to send it in to get your name and the radar noted on the holder?? I checked the auction site and I was 3rd high bidder :-(
  21. ddr70

    A PMG Grading Kanban

    In Japanese, a Kanban (看板) is a signboard or billboard, but in lean manufacturing a Kanban is a scheduling system. Submissions at PMG start out in a Received Status. Then your notes move into a dreaded state, "scheduled for grading"; a purgatory for notes. You you eagerly await a status of Quality Control--if you're like me, you start checking every day after about 30 days. Where are my notes submitted last October? Purgatory. Quality control means the notes made it to the end of the queue and were graded by PMG. In my experience, notes move fairly quickly to Finalized/Imaged/Shipped and you can actually see your grades posted. So what's the point of a Kanban? On the production floor workers and managers can see how progress is going. And if a customer shows up on the production line, they have an idea of when they might receive product. At a show, a customer submitting notes has an idea when the notes will return graded. I think we need a Kanban for grading! The metric could be by tier (economy is my tier), 'how long (on average of course) is it taking from Scheduled for Grading to Quality Control.' Then, let me get a bit crazy here, send me an email (or let me subscribe to receive an email) so I know when the note emerges from scheduled for grading. (Note: I did receive an email when I was charged back in October which is good to know.) If there was a Kanban, I'd have an idea whether or not I might see my notes before the new year. Speaking of the new year, here's what the Union NB of New Castle, PA was doing in 1906--getting it's charter from the Registry of the Treasury. You can just make out the date above the president's signature (Dec. 31, 1906). My $20 is currently in purgatory and not in my Large Type Nationals series 1902 set :-(. You can see all the sets competing in Lg Type Nat'ls of 1902 here: https://notes.www.collectors-society.com/registry/notes/public_sets.aspx?CategoryID=950&amp;SetTypeID=3316 (my PA notes are #7)... Happy holidays :-)!
  22. My point is as a collector's society member, it would be nice if I could get to information I need from the collector's society page. AND like NGC and CGC, provide a common place (i.e. the research link just like those other pages). Why not add that same link on the PMG tab at collector's society JUST LIKE on the NGC and CGC tabs??? thanks!
  23. On NGC (and CGC), there's a research link that takes you to various tools including checking on the authenticity of a NGC certified coin. It's found between About and FAQs and Contact. Could you add such a link on the PMG site to check same? I know it's available here https://www.pmgnotes.com/certlookup/, but I can never find it when I really need it.
  24. ddr70

    Ch #6301

    Your red seals are not replacement notes. The crooked serial number was just interesting. I wonder if the old machinery was more likely to print a crooked SN. Red seals are tricky (as are Brown Backs) as far as replacements. You have to have a serial number that was issued in 1903, or later, after the introduction of the new machinery. The serial numbers on your notes are too low, so were issued in 1902 or early in 1903. They pre-date the introduction of the new machinery. So they correctly show the old font on the numbers and are not replacement notes (more correctly, there's no way to tell if they were replaced). You can find replacement notes on red seals, most commonly on SN 1s. On $5s look for Treasury SNs greater than or equal to A530328. On $10, it's a bit trickier. If the note was from a bank that ordered sheets as $10 $10 $10 $20, then the SN must be greater than or equal to B241777. If the bank ordered sheets of $10 $10 $10 $10 only, then all serial numbers are in play to check--if it has the old font, it's a replacement. I would also assume the serial number on those 10s would be >B241777 as well. The Mellon NB ordered sheets as $10 $10 $10 $20 for red seals. For 50s and 100s, the SN has to be greater than or equal to A92661 and the Mellon NB issued those as well. I made up a jpeg with all the info I need to quickly refer to when scanning auctions for replacement notes. So far, no success :-( They aren't very common. Happy to share it with you--send me an email. So, Ch. 2941 is the First NB of Pierre, SD--that's another of your favorites?? My only note from SD is from Mitchell as a plain back. By the way, I use ddr for double die reverse and 70 because of a perfect grade and my favorite date, 1870.
  25. My Kelly reference says that Charter 2491 did not issue $5 1902 Plain Backs and no 1902 Red Seals or Date Backs. They only issued $50s and $100s using the 2nd title (as shown above). You'll have to go back to Series of 1882 to find a $5 here, but there are Brown Backs, Date Backs, and Value Backs.