ddr70

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Reconvening the 252 club

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ddr70

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Last journal entry was about my two submissions sent the end of July.  The Economy submission I've rec'd and have been posting notes to my various sets.  The bulk submission is still sitting in Sarasota since August 3rd.  It has my $5 Series of 1902 Plain Back on Pittsburgh, PA The First NB at Ch. # 252 (along with 49 other notes :-(.  I added this small size NBN on 252 yesterday.  Great SN (D060000A) and a small size replacement note to boot!  Signatures are those of long-serving cashier C.C. Taylor and relatively new president F.F. Brooks who replaced Lawrence E. Sands in 1928.  Let me know if you want the details on replacements.  Or just enjoy a small 252 while I wait for its large forefather to be graded by PMG.

 

Nat'l $10 1929 Ty 1 Pittsburgh, PA The First NB at Ch. # 252_Replacement_D060000A_VF_tmpl.jpg

Nat'l $10 1929 Ty 1 Pittsburgh, PA The First NB at Ch. # 252_Replacement_D060000A_VF_Obv.jpg

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Nice read! PMG has been slow! 49 notes? I'd be catatonic waiting that long for so many children to return home. I finally got this 252 back from the same vintage as your Aug. submission. I love the serial number. Also, I added a St. Louie FRBN to my collection for Ebay price of $59! Love that SN score. 

 

Fr_658_$20NBN_Ch_252_PMG_25(1).jpg

Fr_1860_H_35_EPQ.jpg

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Thanks,

Pictures with instructions always help me.

Is using the Seal the most reliable diagnostic because it is overprinted with the serial #? Is the "tilt" of the serial # an indicator?

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Let me know if you want the details on replacements.

Sure, I always like learning new things. I have some NBN's but have spent almost zero time learning about them, hope to start getting serious about them next year sometime.

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Serial number and seals were printed simultaneously during normal production.  At the end the numbering head was lifted and a few sheets were printed with just the seals (no serial numbers).  These sheets were for any make up sheets  to replace damaged or otherwise unsuitable notes.  The serial numbers for make up sheets were done on separate 'paging' machines, one serial number at a time.  The operator basically eyeballed it and many times they were dead on.  We know this because one diagnostic for the paging machine is any C position note--the C is quite different from the C on the production numbering machines.  The Atlanta note is a replacement, it has just about perfect serial number positioning, but from the non-standard C's, it has to be a replacement.  The other diagnostic is the numbers looked rubber-stamped and tend to be mis-formed a little and sometimes there's ink splatter.

Some production runs will have a tilt to the serial number, but the diagnostics I show above on the Pittsburgh note stay the same (Right SN 10 mm above seal and line thru center of seals goes thru left side of 4th numeral, 28 mm from bottom of left SN to bottom of right SN).  So you can see on the Pittsburgh note different tilts, right SN too close to seal and line goes through the right side (not left).  I measured 28 mm and 10 mm from a $10 in hand and found HE TREASUR is 10 mm and SECURED BY UNITED STATES BOND (Half of the D) is 28 mm.  So I just use the picture of the note and MS Paint to cut and rotate those elements as my calibrated 'yard-sticks'.  Doesn't matter the size of the Pic, if I cut those elements out of the pic, they represent 10 and 28 mm, respectively.  [NOTE:  you need different elements for $5s and $20s to use as your 'yard sticks']

So, tilt is an indicator, but a lot of production run notes have a tilt.  The bottoms of the 0s just to the right of the 6 look incomplete and the Ds are less than perfect.  To say it looks rubber stamped, I need the note in hand to best make that call.  I think I see a tiny bit of splatter of ink, but you might see that much splatter on a normal production run note as well.  

Happy to advise on your NBNs.  Let me know what you have.  Sheik or I can probably tell you what you've got.

Below, Atlanta is a replacement, Merchantville has the normal Cs which bow inward at the tips.  The Atlanta note is in Sarasota with my Large Pittsburgh (252) note.  They want to come home so badly!

Nat'l $20 1929 Ty. 1 Atlanta, GA The First NB Ch. # 1559_REPLACEMENT_F_Obv.png

Merchantville.jpg

Edited by ddr70
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On 10/17/2020 at 7:40 PM, Sheik Sheck said:

Nice read! PMG has been slow! 49 notes? I'd be catatonic waiting that long for so many children to return home. I finally got this 252 back from the same vintage as your Aug. submission. I love the serial number. Also, I added a St. Louie FRBN to my collection for Ebay price of $59! Love that SN score. 

 

Fr_658_$20NBN_Ch_252_PMG_25(1).jpg

Fr_1860_H_35_EPQ.jpg

Nice that Sands' signature appears as calligraphy.  The vertical on the L is thick as is the underline (horizontal) under Sands, so I suspect he just went back over those lines to make them thick when submitting the exemplars to the BEP.  Then again, I got "Cs" for penmanship 50 years ago :-(  400600 is a fun SN, but I'd prefer the repeater 400400.  I try to catch SNs on FRBNs, but I really don't pay as much attention to them as I do NBNs.  I do look at the Philly notes more closely.  Let me know if I miss one with a fancy SN that you don't want.  The HA block is funny (ha ha).  I should look for a nice AD block.  Have you found out more about Sands?  ad

Edited by ddr70
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So using the seal to fourth digit identifier would not be accurate 100% of the time, you would also need to take into account the font, spacing, tilt, "rubber stamped" look etc.? Are there some instances were there are no discernible differences between a normal production note and a replacement? 

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