A P-23 and the 15-year labels in the context of the Zimbabwe sets

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Revenant

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A couple of weeks ago a pair of P-23 notes came up for sale - a P-23e and a P-23c, ending in that order, a couple of days apart from each other.

I have not seen a lot of P-23s come up for sale over the last few years. One of the few I’ve seen offered is one that has a “Pick-Unlisted” label that was graded years ago, so you don’t know from the label what variety you’re getting and the seller wanted $200 for it - which has always and still seems insane for that note. This probably explains why it still sits unsold. Anyway…

These new notes had starting bid prices of $29 - which was very reasonable.

I was hoping to snag both if I could get them cheap, but I ended up having some competition for them. I decided to try to snag the P-23e and let the P-23c go for now. I ended up being glad I did. I won the P-23e for $38.88 + shipping + tax (set me back $47.50). The P-23c sold for about $75 before tax and shipping - two other people wanted that one bad, I guess.

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It is very nice to pick this one up though. This P-23e, with the P-22b I got in a lucky win earlier in the year, is finally giving me some in-roads and progress on a segment of the complete Zimbabwe series / collection that I’ve been pretty weak in up to this point.

This note has one of the new style holders with a 15-year label. That got me thinking a little…

The note itself is from 2003. It’s only 17 years old and it was made only 2 years before PMG got started.

This realization got me thinking about the fact that the 2nd Dollar series was released in 2005 and 2006 and that PMG was just getting started and was a “cool new thing in the industry,” right at the time when the Zimbabwe hyperinflation and the collection craze over these notes was entering into its peak phase. PMG was only about 3-4 years old when the 100 trillion notes hit the street. This makes me wonder a little if this coincidence of timing helped power Zimbabwe into being #20 in the list of the countries with the most notes graded by PMG.

This has my interest a little piqued to see if I might be able to get one of the 2005 dated 2nd dollar bearer checks in a holder with the 15-year label on it for my collection. I just can’t help but think that would be neat to have. I’m not sure what dollar value that novelty is going to have for me or what I’m going to be willing to shell out to make that happen but it’s definitely going to be “on my radar” now.

Incidentally, 2005 is also the year I graduated from High School… and now I realize it has been 15 years since I graduated from High School… and… dangit… now I just feel old.

Dang it! … I am old.

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Naw you're just a spring chicken compared to some of us old farts in this sport. Great note! Although I hope they aren't putting that 15 year symbol on all holders. Did you request that? How did you get the #20 list of most graded notes? Also, I think you should plan a trip to Zimbabwe one day. I think you might receive a red carpet welcome. 

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6 minutes ago, Sheik Sheck said:

Naw you're just a spring chicken compared to some of us old farts in this sport. Great note! 

Ah, yes. I know, but I wish what's left of my rapidly receding hairline did. Thanks! It feels like a big win - incidentally, I think it's the only P-23e currently graded and PMG had to add it in for me this morning so I could add it to my set.

8 minutes ago, Sheik Sheck said:

Although I hope they aren't putting that 15 year symbol on all holders.

No. Unlike most other special labels, you can get it for free and don't have to pay a $5 fee to get it, but you still have to explicitly request it on the form and I've seen plenty with and without it. The label gets discontinued in about 5 months on 12/31/2020. I didn't request it because I'm not the one that had it graded, but the dealer I bought it from would have had to have done so. I have notes in new holders with and without the "15 Years" from this same seller. I'm not sure there's any rhyme or reason to what they had that put on and what they didn't. Seems awfully random to me.

 

 

13 minutes ago, Sheik Sheck said:

How did you get the #20 list of most graded notes?

If you go into the pop report on the PMGnotes.com site you can choose to have it display the countries by "Most Graded." and it shows how many notes are graded for each country below the name of the country. From there, it's just counting (or multiplying 4 x 5) to figure out that Zimbabwe comes in at #20. It's really shocking that roughly half of everything PMG has graded is Chinese.

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17 minutes ago, Sheik Sheck said:

Also, I think you should plan a trip to Zimbabwe one day. I think you might receive a red carpet welcome. 

Definitely not something I'm ruling out - though it would be nice if the country could mount something of a recovery before I do. The poverty rate is still about 90% and that just seems like it would be a sad thing to witness firsthand - all of it so unnecessary and avoidable.

It is funny to think about in that, as much as I find these notes and this bit of economic history interesting, I doubt these notes inspire warm, fuzzy feelings in Zimbabwe and I doubt they get much joy from the idea of these dang foreigners collecting as novelties these things that are so symbolic and representative of such a miserable period for their country - which is largely still ongoing. Every time they come out with a new note they start hitting ebay in droves to a lot of fanfare and hype. It's slightly insane in some ways.

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Cool note, 

I'm surprised there were that many varieties for a one year issue. I'm guessing the number of varieties is in part due to what a pile of hot garbage the government was/is. Looks like there are two other 23e's out there. I don't mind the 15 YEARS on the holder, but the holders in my sets not matching slightly annoys me. Beggars can't be choosers when the right note pops up though.

Just saw a 2019 five dollar note popped up (70 EPQ), Not a fan of PMG keeping unlisted notes off the population reports, makes it a little harder to judge value/rarity.

2 hours ago, Sheik Sheck said:

I think you might receive a red carpet welcome.

I don't like the sound of that, could have a whole different meaning in Zimbabwe. You may not want The Red Carpet Welcome. :devil:

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18 minutes ago, Fenntucky Mike said:

Just saw a 2019 five dollar note popped up (70 EPQ),

Wow. Yup. I had to go looking when I saw that. I'd seen a 69 but not that 70. That's intense. Puts my 67 EPQ to shame I guess but... I'm okay with a 67. I think I'm going to have to watch that one just to see how much it sells for though. I think there was a 70 EPQ for the 100 Trillion note that someone actually agreed to pay about $12,350 for. I.... struggle to comprehend that price for a condition rarity of a note that is common as sand on the beach.

The 69s and 70s are impressive when they show up and I've seen 70s appear for several pick#s in the series at this point. If anyone could ever pull together a set of them one day that would be crazy impressive and they'd have mad-props from me, but I don't think that will be me - not any time soon. Probably not this decade. lol I think if I do start trying to upgrade any of my existing notes any time soon my wife is liable to get rather cranky with me.

I am rather pleased / proud of the set I've put together on the whole though with a fair number of 68 EPQs now and one solitary 69 EPQ. This set is just so dang big that just trying to complete it in reasonably good grades just gets hard.

I think there might be a bit of a lag / time delay before things make it to the pop report and this seller keeps submitting new notes for grading.

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LOL, I threw down a low ball bid on that 70 yesterday, just to see how quickly I would be passed.:devil: It didn't take long, less than a day. With 15 watching and 8 days left seems like a cinch to jump past $200, I'm thinking it may clear $300. 

I'm with you, I'd be perfectly happy with a 67 or 68 for this note. 68's for modern world notes are usually readily available at much lower costs.

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7 minutes ago, Fenntucky Mike said:

I'm with you, I'd be perfectly happy with a 67 or 68 for this note. 68's for modern world notes are usually readily available at much lower costs.

Yeah. It's usually not too hard to get 68's for a lot of things for not much more than the cost of grading.

Of course, my Zimbabwe set leans on a lot of bulk-graded 66 EPQs that I got at bargain prices, but I'm usually pretty happy to have a 66 EPQ. I'll take a 67 EPQ or 68 EPQ if I can get it for a reasonable price. The other thing I find is that, once I have a 66 or a 67 - especially with a 67 - it's hard to convince myself to drop money on an "upgrade," even when one pops up at a good price. I am giving some thought to going back and swapping out some of the few 65 EPQs I have later on though.

Side note but I think there is a 68 EPQ for that note up for sale right now if you're willing to drop about $50-60 for it. There's a 68 EPQ of the new $10 notes that I think I'm going to go after. I got handed my head on an auction for a P-77 I wanted yesterday so maybe I'll win this new note instead.

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I'll keep my eye on that $5 68 EPQ, I might give it a go.

The problem is that like Zimbabwe notes, there seems to be a endless supply of new Ukrainian notes popping up for sale. So I'm mainly focusing on some of those at the moment. Two familiar sellers just put up a bunch of Ukrainian notes and one familiar seller is flooding the market with both, there are currently at least 102 PMG graded Ukrainian notes for sale. I don't think I've ever seen that many up for sale at one time and the PMG population report just keeps climbing every week, these sellers just keep sending notes in. I still say they are looking at registry sets :insane:.

Discussing notes in an open forum probably isn't the best when we're looking at going after them but I've seen more tumbleweeds here than people. Banknotes becoming more popular should be a good thing for everyone.

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3 hours ago, Fenntucky Mike said:

I still say they are looking at registry sets :insane:.

I don't know that I would have felt that way until recently, but the P-7, P-9 and P-5 variety I wanted popped up so close to each other, then the P-11a, and then a P-12a pops up not too long after I talk about that being the last 2nd series note I needed and I do start to wonder. The one thing that keeps me from being paranoid is I keep seeing P-6 notes come up and I've long since now stopped caring about those after getting a 68 EPQ.

3 hours ago, Fenntucky Mike said:

Discussing notes in an open forum probably isn't the best when we're looking at going after them but I've seen more tumbleweeds here than people. Banknotes becoming more popular should be a good thing for everyone.

Yeah, normally I'd never openly admit that I want to bid on something in particular, but if you look at the open slot in my signature set and my bidding habits of late it's an open secret that I'd want the thing anyway and I think you can almost count the number of truly active regulars here on 2 hands - 100% agreed. I'd love to see that change though.

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27 minutes ago, Fenntucky Mike said:

:news: That $5 70EPQ has flown past $250, looks like a slam dunk to clear $300.

Any guesses as to where it may land $$$$

I have no idea. Interestingly, it seems like there's a resurgence in interest in these notes going on right now. I'm rather surprised by how aggressive the bidding has gotten on that note so quickly. The last few auctions I've been in for 1st dollar notes and a P-77 I lost have all been getting harder and getting more interest lately it feels like. I'm wondering if this new series is reviving interest or if something else is going on.

$300 seems like it'll be easy. I'm thinking we might see $400-500 at this rate. I guess we'll see. Again, I'm happy to have my 67 EPQ that I scored for about $35. There are some other things I'm going to go for while some others beat each other up over that.

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On 8/10/2020 at 12:06 PM, Fenntucky Mike said:

:news: That $5 70EPQ has flown past $250, looks like a slam dunk to clear $300.

Any guesses as to where it may land $$$$

Well, 1.5 days left and it's up to $407. Wow.

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Watching an auction like this always makes me wonder about bidding strategy. Is bidding 20+ times on an item going to net you a lower hammer price on an item like this, I tend to think no. One person seems bound and determined to win this note, I think one snipe bid at the end would have served them better. Makes me wonder if they are bidding beyond there means, hopefully not.

If I was a real jerk, I would go back in there and make a minimal bid to drive that price up, just to see. Especially since the leader made another bid against themselves.:devil:

Nah, I'm having to much fun watching.:popcorn:

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1 hour ago, Fenntucky Mike said:

Watching an auction like this always makes me wonder about bidding strategy. Is bidding 20+ times on an item going to net you a lower hammer price on an item like this, I tend to think no. One person seems bound and determined to win this note, I think one snipe bid at the end would have served them better. Makes me wonder if they are bidding beyond there means, hopefully not.

If I was a real jerk, I would go back in there and make a minimal bid to drive that price up, just to see. Especially since the leader made another bid against themselves.:devil:

Nah, I'm having to much fun watching.:popcorn:

Yeah. I agree. I've gotten very careful lately about not bidding until the end. Part of this is the result of some activity with one seller that I think might have been shill bidding, but, in general, I feel no need to give people more time to run me up or think about increasing their bids. Much better to decide going in what the absolute maximum you could be happy paying is and put that in with a minute to go.

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38 minutes ago, Fenntucky Mike said:

Are you *spooning* me, $1,026 unbelievable!

It'll be hilarious when a second one gets posted in a few days.:roflmao:

 

Yeah.... That shocked me. I audibly gasped and my wife asked what was wrong. 😆

Again, I'm good with my 67 EPQ. I actually won the auction for that 67 EPQ $10 note at 4:30 AM - bidding unopposed for $28.99 (about $37 all in after shipping and taxes).

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11 minutes ago, Revenant said:

Again, I'm good with my 67 EPQ. I actually won the auction for that 67 EPQ $10 note at 4:30 AM - bidding unopposed for $28.99 (about $37 all in after shipping and taxes).

Nice, I was watching that one as well. 

I'd like to get the new series in 68's, I'm keeping my eyes on few Zimbabwe auctions. Only problem is there a several Ukrainian notes I'm going to be bidding on and I'm just going to have to wait before bidding on any Zimbabwe new series notes.

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4 hours ago, Fenntucky Mike said:

Nice, I was watching that one as well. 

I'd like to get the new series in 68's, I'm keeping my eyes on few Zimbabwe auctions. Only problem is there a several Ukrainian notes I'm going to be bidding on and I'm just going to have to wait before bidding on any Zimbabwe new series notes.

Yeah... and I think there is a 68 for that one coming up in a day or so. I thought about going for that 68, but my other 2 so far are 67s, I'm pretty happy with 67s but I am trying to mostly make 67s happen just so they'll be "Superb Gem." If they ever make a competitive set for these you may force me to upgrade to 68 EPQ just because I don't want to take the #2 spot in Zimbabwe lol. Joking... Maybe... :slapfight: One of these days I'm  probably going to be forced do go back and upgrade some of my 4th dollar notes and some of my higher denom 3rd dollars just to clear out some 65 EPQ notes and one 64 EPQ that are dragging the rest down.

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